Sober Curious, Mindful & Alcohol-Free Drinkers Podcast: Low No Drinker

#94. Lifted: The UK's First High Protein, Alcohol-Free Lager

• Denise Hamilton-Mace • Episode 94

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This week I'm chatting with Tony Robinson, co-founder of Lifted - the UK's first 0.0% high protein craft lager made for athletes.
 
Tony and his wife, Rebecca, launched their unique offering to solve a problem they were both experiencing - wanting additional protein in their diets whilst enjoying alcohol-free options after workouts.
 
With over 250,000 cans sold and a fiercely loyal customer base, Lifted sits at the intersection of fitness culture and mindful drinking.
 
Tony shares the challenges of creating a category of one, the lengthy R&D process of making protein beer actually taste good, and why they're determined to stay true to their "brewed for the stronger you" mission despite knowing that the requests for an alcoholic version would sell a lot easier.

0:00 Tony's Lifted story
6:04 Making an alcohol-free protein lager
11:13 Who's drinking non-alcoholic protein beer?
16:59 250,000 cans sold so far
18:27 Customers & costs
21:52 A category of one
24:16 Developing the range
26:44 Why protein?
35:46 What's the point?
38:59 Where to find Lifted
39:40 The BBQ-Q

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Speaker 1:

Hello, hello and welcome to this week's conversation on the Low no Drinker podcast, bringing you closer to the people, places and brands leading the low no and light alcohol revolution. My guest today is Tony Robinson. Tony is one half of the husband and wife founder team behind Lifted, a 0.0% high protein craft lager made for athletes. There is a lot of talk at the moment in the Lono space about the connection between choosing a life less intoxicated and the health implications of alcohol and non-alcoholic drinks, and Tony and his team have created a product that sits right in the center of that conversation. It's low calorie, it's vegan, as I said, it's high protein. It's a one of a kind offering and today we're going to have a chat about the story, about how this brand came to be, the challenges of being in a category of one and what the future looks like for Lifted. And so far, with over 250,000 cans sold to date, I'm guessing the future is looking up. Get it Because they're called lifted. Looking up, right? I'm sorry I couldn't help it, hi, tony.

Speaker 2:

Very good.

Speaker 1:

How are you doing, darling? Thank you for joining me.

Speaker 2:

I'm doing great. Thank you very much. Thank you for that great introduction.

Speaker 1:

I don't need to say anything else.

Speaker 2:

You've just done it. That's it. End of the show. Thanks for coming.

Speaker 1:

No, listen, I think it's really, really interesting, uh, and, by the way, the cheesy jokes might not stop there. I, I am a fan of a cheesy 80s one-liner, um, but yeah, no, I think it's really interesting what you've done. I think it's really exciting in this space. I think that, um, as I said, you're in a category of one, as far as my research has revealed, uh, and that's got to be quite challenging in and of itself. So, before we get into all that, I always like to ask start by asking my guest to share the adventure, really, that led you to launch the brand. So, start where you want to start. What was the journey that got you here?

Speaker 2:

cool, yeah, so, um, so it's myself and my wife who are the co-founders, so team of two and um, we both kind of came up with the idea or went into it, for different reasons, I suppose. So, um, from my wife's side, rebecca she's a lifelong vegetarian. She's very bored of all the options up until recently that you would get in a menu and very found it very difficult to get additional protein into her diet. She's very much like myself in terms of she likes physical activity, likes going to the gym, still weight active, and you know, getting protein to diet was hard. There's only so many beans you can eat.

Speaker 2:

So, uh, exactly, so, um, so she came at it from the angle of you know how do I get additional protein to my diet in a clean way that is good for me, that's low in calorie and from from my size. Um, I was going to gym a lot. I've been training for like 20 odd years. Um, last five or six years I've been doing crossfit at like a semi-competitive level, wow and I was already kind of making the decision to shift from my alcoholic beverages to non-alcoholic beverages.

Speaker 2:

Like young family didn't want to wake up with a muzzy head, the kind of the normal reasons, but also training pretty hard and, you know, undoing all my work, I would then shift into alcohol-free options and as I was drinking those alcohol-free beers, they then started to feel a little bit like I'm having these calories but I'm not kind of getting anything back in return from it. So if I'd have like four cans of alcohol-free beer, for example, I might be having 300 calories and it just felt a little bit empty. And then I would go on and have a protein shake later in the day or a grenade bar or whatever it might be, to kind of bump up my, my macros and, um, it just felt like a a really good fit for where we were in life and what we were actually experiencing.

Speaker 2:

So we came up with the idea you know, we would just constantly you know, me and my wife always come up with lots of ideas and we've had a product-based business in the past. Um, you know what, what trends are happening, and there's these huge macro trends, right where you've got people are enjoying, um, going to the gym much more than they ever used to. The fitness revolution in terms of, you know, fitness is not about just going to the gym and going home, it's about, you know, socializing. It's about, um, music, it's very connected to, like you know, pop culture. The fit just and the timing just felt right to bring out this product, which is kind of hitting these huge macro trends. You've got people wanting to increase the amount of protein that they have, yet reduce the amount of meat they want to eat. So there's all these trends that came together and we felt that by coming up with this idea and this product, we we kind of hit a lot of things all at once I think you definitely did.

Speaker 1:

You made some really good, good points and I like what you say about. You know, fitness and and health is is no longer just about going and getting as jacked as possible or getting as skinny as possible. You know that that super huge guy and that size zero girl thing is kind of phasing out now, as people are looking after themselves more holistically and trying to find ways to incorporate different elements of their lifestyle to all add up to a healthier way of being, rather than just going, like a lot of people listen to this show you. You know they're not necessarily going, never drinking alcohol again, they're going. I want to be able to make some healthier choices at those times that suit, and I think that this fits in really well with that that's kind of where we come up with our, our line, which is brewed for the stronger you.

Speaker 2:

And it's just we're brewed for the stronger version of yourself, right, and it doesn't just relate to just having this one singular beer. It's all of those decisions, all those rituals, all those habits that you make as an individual that make you stronger, better version of yourself, wherever it's fitness, wise, professional, family life, whatever it might be, we're brewed for a stronger version of you I like that, I really like that.

Speaker 1:

So tell me then about the process of creating the beer. Now, obviously I'm not asking you to give out any proprietary secrets, but, um, you know there's a lot of. I've done a few episodes on this podcast about functional drinks and, and you know I've had some experts in different fields sort of talking about how drinks can be made, but nobody has spoken to me about protein. So sort of, from start to to where you are now, as much as you can, what's the process of making a protein beer?

Speaker 2:

so a lot of testing, as you might imagine, and you said, we are kind of in a category by ourselves. I think that's why because it's been a long journey and a difficult one and a lot of testing which has cost us a lot of capital, but eventually we've got into a place where we are really happy with kind of what we've produced and and kind of how the product is and how well it's been received. Um, but it just started with literally first thing was get a scoop of protein mix into your beer.

Speaker 1:

How does it taste right that?

Speaker 2:

that.

Speaker 1:

That's the first thing and then, and then it was okay.

Speaker 2:

What other proteins can I? Can I buy and start mixing into other non-alcoholic beers? And that was where it started you know, very, very simple, just um testing uh. But then from there we worked with some consultants, um, who helped us, kind of like it, brew, uh, a zero percent beer, because we were like really keen.

Speaker 1:

We were keen that we wanted to be there are a few things we wanted to hit with this, and 0.0 percent was something that we really wanted to hit, because we felt like, if it's a fitness product which it is we didn't want it to have any alcohol in it which could be classed as a toxin, because we just felt like it just messed with our brand uh story and messed, messed with our message.

Speaker 2:

We really wanted to hear that and we really wanted it to be vegan or vegetarian, because Rebecca's coming out from this vegetarian angle. We've had a lot of feedback from our customers saying we love your product because it is those two things and actually they don't necessarily mind the protein, that's just an additional benefit. It actually comes to us for a different reason. So we really wanted to do that and it was. It started off with a consultant. He helped us and then, once the consultant kind of passed us like the ip and the recipe, we then started to work very closely with brewery. So we still have the same brewery that we work with right from the beginning, right up until this point now, and I can't give away too much on the brewing process.

Speaker 2:

Um, I said we have done a lot to get it to where it is, but the crux of it was using high quality products, high quality ingredients, and we had to source a protein that was completely soluble. That was one challenge. So we don't have a cloudy look, we don't have to look milky. We don't want fruit to feel like it with a protein shake. It had to be completely solubleble. Um had to be clear. Um also had to um have like either a sweet or a bitter taste, because that way we could work with it with regards to the beer profile, because beer is like that balance of sweet and bitter um. So we started off for a long time having pea protein which was like much more of a bitter taste, and we were able to work with that and we eventually transferred it to a rice protein which is a much more sweet taste.

Speaker 1:

Um, and now we're kind of balancing out that with the the rest of the brewing process wow, it sounds like it must have been quite a, like you say, a trial and error sort of process. I love the fact that you're very honest and said look, it started off with a scoop of protein powder, because I guess where else do you start? Right, like you just got to figure it out yeah um, so tell me then, uh, for those watching.

Speaker 1:

Uh, I've got a few cans here behind me. Let me show that to the screen. So lovely, um design. It's very simple, it's very clear. Uh, tell me what it tastes like, because I think people are going to want to know what does a protein beer taste like? So what's the flavor profile?

Speaker 2:

yeah. So first of all, um, you can't taste the protein, okay, so that's that's. One thing is that it doesn't taste like a protein shake.

Speaker 2:

It's not chalky or milky or like gritty or anything like that okay, so I think the flavor profile is like it's quite malt forward, um, it's quite quite a malty beer. Then we have some kind of like, uh, like noble hops in it. So it's more of a like pills in a feel. But it's very crisp and it's very refreshing because we want it to be drunk at that moment when you've smashed a workout, finished a run, you're hot and you're sweaty and you go, ah, dying for a beer. That's when you drink it, when you have, you have it, then it is the best Like it is so good. So, yeah, it's crisp, it's refreshing, more like a Pilsner-style beer.

Speaker 1:

Okay, okay, and I was going to ask that was going to be one of my questions like who is it for and what occasions is it for? Because obviously you mentioned that you do a fair bit of CrossFit. For Obviously, you mentioned that you do a fair bit of CrossFit. For anyone who doesn't know, crossfit is just sort of crazy intense weights and bodyweight exercises and madness. Go and check it out. It's so much fun to watch, but I can imagine. But it's a very social sport as well. You don't do it in a gym, you do it in something called a box and you all do it together as a group, as opposed to individual workouts. So is this sort of like part of the end of that? You're all sitting there together. You're all sort of all lying on the floor dying, cracking a beer. Is it more for a runner? Is it more for the solo um sports person? Who do you see drinking this?

Speaker 2:

100. Great question. Um, it's, it's. It's just like beer, social. It's not necessarily meant to be drink drunk, you know. By by itself it's supposed to be social. That's at least how we sit, and we have two main types of places where this is drunk. So it is at the end of a event, okay. So if you've just done something which is a big achievement, um, that's when it's drunk or like in that social setting at the end of a day at the CrossFit gym, that is when, um, when it's yeah that's when it was made to be consumed.

Speaker 2:

In those moments where you want to increase that sense of community, you want to have, you know, friends that have just done something together have that sense of accomplishment coming together. Their endorphins are already high. That crack of a beer like keeps that kind of vibe and energy going. So that that's, that's the one area and we do a lot of events and kind of at the end of events people are finished for the day. That's when they really come to us and get that ice cold beer feeling and the second place where it gets drunk a lot is just in the home. So we have a lot of tags on Instagram and social media of people in front of TV watching football, for example, like the classic, like feet up can of lifted in the hand.

Speaker 2:

You know what better way to spend the day watching x, whatever it is. And that is, I think, something we didn't expect. We thought it was going to be much more drink in that social setting, but actually it's something that people are unwinding with at home. I think they're just swapping out the either regular beer or a regular alcohol-free beer and going I'm watching football, I'm gonna have a beer, but it's gonna have protein in it as well, and it's like if I was already the same journey I was on, if I'm already drinking alcohol-free beer, why would I not have one that was, you know, better for me or macro friendly?

Speaker 1:

yeah, absolutely, and I love that you can have it whilst you're after you've participated in sports or just watching other people doing it he covered both ends.

Speaker 1:

My husband just did a, a tough mudder. We both we love doing tough mudders. This was his fourth. I've only done two, uh, and he got really excited when I told him that I was speaking to you. Because he got really excited because he was like, oh, maybe that that's the kind of thing that might have at the end of the race. So when you do these obstacle races, uh, they always have a couple of free drinks for people because obviously they're exhausted. But I can really see something like lifted being in that sort of space, you know, and really, um, jumping into that sort of, uh, public sportsmanship, camaraderie sort of occasion, like some other brands that are well, obviously there's the huge brand from the states who made their sort of Well, obviously there's the huge brand from the States who made their sort of name by being part of sports, and I could definitely see that being a perfect fit for something like Lifted.

Speaker 2:

Yeah it's 100 percent the direction we want to go in. All that stuff just costs a lot where we're currently not quite there yet. So we're trying to do things like free events where we can go and there's maybe's, say, 500 people rather than 5 000 people and we can pitch up for free, we can build our audience, we can speak to the consumer, we can meet them where they're at, we can, um, probably sell rather than give away and we can um still get people to experience the product, um, still get some great content and still, like, build our audience, but without necessarily doing it at those really big events just yet. But if I was going to say like, if we were going to align to a sport, it would probably be something like High Rocks Community.

Speaker 2:

Because of that you know what I said before this you know people that want to achieve basically that team spirit, because you can do it singly, but a lot of people do it in twos or they do it in, um, yeah, in fours, and it's just that community of people that want to do, to do better, and they find fitness fun like that's. That's who we want to. You know, like you say, with yourself and the top model, it's a challenge, but it's fun like that, otherwise you wouldn't keep going back for more. And, uh, we eventually want to meet our customer right there at the end of that that race and give them that post-race feeling yeah, yeah, uh, high rocks is, uh, looks intense.

Speaker 1:

It's sort of like a. It's a cross between like what is it? How do you like obstacles and crossfit and just intense team workouts, right yeah I'll give you the very brief, brief rundown of it.

Speaker 2:

It's a uh, I think it's eight or ten stations and in between every station you do a 1k run. So you do like a sled pull 1k run, sled push 1k run, and then you come back you do a row 1k run, so on and so forth and um, it's just such a hugely popular race and you can do it in a pair, you can do it individually, we can do it four, but when you go there the music is pumping. They've got all the vendors there. People don't just turn up and go, they turn up and they stay, and you know, um, it's amazing, it's really great.

Speaker 2:

So that type of sporting event is like perfect for us it's just way out of scope, but it's for the time being yeah, I can imagine, I can remember.

Speaker 1:

First of all, that definitely sounds like the kind of thing you'd need a beer afterwards so that perfect fit.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, you're right, you know, and I think one thing a lot of people, that founders that come on the show, I like that you're all quite honest and open about the fact that, excuse me, these things cost money, right? It's not just, oh, you know you should be here and you should be there. It's like, well, actually you have to pay to play, right, and you have to put your hand in your pocket first before you get the chance to get that exposure and and it's not easy for for a small brand, but you guys are doing quite well. I mentioned in the opening that you've sold over 250 000 cans so far. Is that accurate?

Speaker 2:

yes, yes, yeah that's huge.

Speaker 2:

I feel like what we found with our customers is that they're incredibly loyal. So we have over 70% of our customers returning for another case and the average customer of ours orders 3.9 cases. So we have a really loyal fan base, people that get it and make it part of their ritual and understand it. Once they've, I think, had it same as like if I have a regular non-alcohol beer. Now I feel a bit shortchanged almost, because I'm not getting the benefit out of it, and I think that's what happens to our customer base. They see it, they try it, they love it and they love it put it as part of their ritual even though it's a little bit more expensive.

Speaker 2:

They put that aside and go this is a really good product, um, and they uh continue to buy, so that helps us with that. 250 000 cans sold I don't know what the number is now. It's obviously grown um a little since since we spoke um, but it has um.

Speaker 1:

It has helped having a good product and a loyal customer base so you mentioned there that it might be a little bit more expensive. What's the current RRP and what is it that contributes to why you feel that that's where it needs to be positioned?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so we're £25, plus delivery, if you subscribe and save. Or we're £35 if you just buy it one-off, and we positioned it that way to make the subscribe and save like a 35 pound. Um, if you just buy it one off, and we positioned it that way to make the subscribe and save like a no-brainer, we want people to subscribe, to subscribe, cancel anytime. It's really easy like it's not a yeah, a gimmick to get people in. It's just we wanted to position it that way and, um, what makes it expensive? Um, so, let's say, a regular non-apoholic beer would probably cost you in the region between 45p and 60p if you were like a new brand with like a 3,000 litre tank, something like that probably closer to a 60p for a regular non-alcoholic beer to be produced.

Speaker 2:

For us, because we have the additional protein that is a huge, huge part of our cost it's probably 40% of our cost is the protein itself. So our beer costs more like a pound to manufacture rather than 60p. So therefore, then you start to add in the cost of the cans, the labels, the boxes. It ends up being a fairly expensive endeavor to produce it. So we wanted to produce something that had, they said, a really high grade protein in it. That was something that ticks all the boxes that we that we wanted. So we could have gone down like a collagen route or a bovine route. That'd be much, much cheaper. But we didn't want to isolate, um like that part of the market. And, as I said at the start, rebecca is a vegetarian and she loves having a can of lifted. I don't think she can live without it. Now, um so, um again, we didn't want to go down that route, even though we knew that we could probably like save some some cost.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and and is it a de-alcoholized uh beer base or brewed to zero percent?

Speaker 2:

it's um. There's no fermentation happening, so it's it's brewed to zero percent yeah okay.

Speaker 1:

So I mean, and all of that, you know, it all adds to the cost, doesn't it? Because there's no fermentation happening, so it's brewed to 0%. Okay, and all of that, it all adds to the cost, doesn't it? Because it's not just the fact that you're making a beer, it's that you're making it differently from a full-strength beer. So already the production of a non-alcoholic beer is more, and people don't often recognize why that is and obviously all the costs and implications and, uh, you know all the things that add to that. And then you're also adding the protein on top, plus all the r and d that has to go into it. So it is. I can imagine it's just cost on top of cost. You, you mentioned it was 25 or 35, that's for a case of how many that's 12 12.

Speaker 1:

Okay, perfect, yeah, um, I normally do this closer to the end, but as we're talking about it, so if people do, having heard all this, and they think right, you know what, I need to go and check that out. I need to go and try it. Let's tell them now where they can go to find it. What's the website and the socials.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so wwwliftedbrewingcom, so you can go there to buy it. If you want to check it out on socials, it's lifted underscore brewing on Instagram and just lifted brewing on TikTok.

Speaker 1:

OK, all right, perfect.

Speaker 2:

And there you'll see lots of sweaty pictures of me and some other stuff mixed in.

Speaker 1:

Well, it's worth a visit for that. It's the blood, sweat and tears that goes into the workout and the beer. I will make sure that's all in the show notes. I will remind people of that later on as well. Why do you think you're in a category of one, Tony? Why do you think nobody else has cottoned on to this combination yet?

Speaker 2:

I'm not entirely sure. I'm waiting for someone else. I am waiting for this competition. I'm really surprised. You mentioned the other brand that are focused on athletes, and I feel like it's a matter of time before someone comes in and does this as well. But it may be just the fact that it is more difficult, and I think that's the only reason I can come up with is that it has been difficult to manufacture it. I suppose the other thing is it is quite a challenger to the market thing to have done.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because beer and health, typically, they just don't go together, like beer, is not known for being a healthy product.

Speaker 2:

Even the non-alcoholic beer, although you're doing it for health reasons, it's not particularly a healthy product. I think it's potentially that crossover between health and beer just hasn't happened yet. You think about almost every single other drink in the world. There's healthy versions of it or versions with, I don't know, lion's mane, magnesium, um, caffeine, whatever it might be. There's, there's versions of it that make you a better, better version of you or help with you, whether it be for focus or sleep or clarity of mind or whatever, and beer is like the only one that doesn't have that. So, before you know, we feel like we're a challenger brand, challenging not just the non-alcoholic market but actually the alcoholic market as well. We're really going right up against them and, um, I think that's quite a tough thing to do with a startup and also quite unique proposition. So maybe, um, maybe we were just stupid enough to do it, or brave enough to do it, I'm not sure well, it's definitely one of the two.

Speaker 1:

But you're right, I think that you'll find these things never stay a category of one for long, right? So there will be others that will be coming to join you in the space, but you will always be the first. So you know, nobody could take that away. Nobody could take that away, and that helps you to be in a position of a leader in this space and really a pioneer for what the category could and should look like. There's the one SKU, excuse me at the moment. When did you launch?

Speaker 2:

We were in 2023. We sold our first product, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Wow, okay, great. And how does the future look? I won't do my lifted joke again. I'd love right now to be playing that song from the Lighthouse family.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, what a tune, what a tune.

Speaker 1:

It's a great tune. You should have that on all of your advertising. Of course they would want money.

Speaker 2:

You know when you get the Spotify wrapped at the end of the year, I was like top one percent for lighthouse family 2023, just because I was playing that song on repeat yeah, everybody over a certain age right now is singing along to that song.

Speaker 1:

Everybody else under the age is going. Who the heck are the lighthouse family? Yeah, it's a great tune. Guys. Go and check it out. Perfect for summertime as well, definitely, um, so you've got the one for the moment. Is your plan to stay with just the one for now, or do you have, um, some some other ideas in mind?

Speaker 2:

yes, so we're doing a bit of polling at the moment, a bit of testing, to figure out what the next steps are. Um, we did actually have a ipa and what we found is just like capital wise, it was too much to have the two stews running, so we pulled back on the ipa and we just wanted to focus on on nailing, the nailing, the lager. Um, so we will. It's a toss-up between a? Um high protein ipa or a creatine. That's right, not creating um electrolyte um beer. So instead of having the protein it would be electrolyte beer.

Speaker 2:

Um, and the other thing we were looking at was making a gluten-free version. So, ticking all the boxes, we can't really do but making a, making the current version like gluten-free. But that seems very, very challenging. So, um, yeah, we might have to pause that one. But ultimately it's down to our customer base. So we're doing polls on linkedin emails out to our customers. We're also putting product on waiting lists as well so that we can just kind of sense what the demand is before we actually go ahead and actually create the item. But I think all the learnings that we've got from the lager, it will help with the development of the next item.

Speaker 1:

And you know, I don't think that's uh a bad thing to have the one skew and to be focused on that. I mean, you know, look at, look at, what lucky saint did they just had one for for six years before they decided to launch something else and they did all right exactly exactly.

Speaker 1:

I don't think that's a bad thing. Um, let's jump back a little bit to the protein element. For those who are listening, this sounds great, but why do I need protein in my beer? Can you tell listeners just a little bit about what that actually does for them?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, definitely so. Protein is the building block of our body, so we need protein in our diet for muscle maintenance, but also for muscle growth, and it's also great for things like bone density as well. So it's really important that we have enough protein in our in our diet. So for like a rough guidance, for every kilogram of weight that you have, body weight wise, you should try and get two grams of protein per day. So for me I am 90 kilos um, I would need to get about around 180 grams of protein per day to to have like a decent amount of protein. Okay, and if you're going muscle growth, you might try and up that a little bit. So somewhere between the 1.5 and 2.5 is good, um, but I would normally try and aim for two.

Speaker 2:

That's very difficult to get because you just think of like high protein foods. Like an egg, an egg's only got seven grams of protein in it. So even if you have three eggs, which you might think, wow, I've had loads of protein today, it's only 21 grams of protein. So if you've got 180 grams, to get after 21 grams isn't isn't an awful lot it's a lot of eggs, it's a lot yeah, too many eggs, um, if you had like chicken breast, for example, that's maybe 30 grams of protein.

Speaker 2:

So all of the grenade bars that you might see in the, the protein shakes that you can buy in the four quarts at petrol station, um, powders that you can buy, they're all just supplements. They're supplements to help you hit that protein goal. They're not intended to be your diet. They're not intended to take away from your meat, your beans, your eggs, all the other ways you get protein. They're just there to help you hit those goals, because it's really hard to to hit them. So we see ourselves as just another way to get to hit those protein goals, especially, you know, if you're already drinking the non-alcoholic beer version, um, and it's already part of your ritual. If you just sub out that product round product just helps helps you hit your goals. Um, the other thing as well is that quite a lot of those products that I mentioned are very, very processed. So think about, like a grenade bar or, um, let's say, grenade shake or something like that that you might see they've probably got 20 to 25 plus ingredients. And that's the same for powdered shakes and a lot of the other shakes. You'll see, and we've god knows how many stabilizers and they need a chemistry degree to decode what's actually in it, whereas we've only got five ingredients in our product. So we're a very, very, very clean way to get protein.

Speaker 2:

Um, add to that that our product is only 60 calories for the can. It's very, very low calorie. So again, I keep using this example, but a grenade bar is probably 250 calories. A protein shake might be 250, 300, 350 calories, whereas our product is only 60 calories. Of which that 60 calories, 40 of the calories come from the protein itself. So every gram of protein contains four calories. So we've got 10 grams of protein per can. So 40 calories of the beer is protein which you have to consume. And then the actual beer itself is only around 20 calories, which is super low. And there are some that are ever so slightly lower that are on that low-calorie side super low. And, uh, you know there are some that are, like, ever so slightly lower, that are on that low calorie side, but it's a very, very low calorie drink and a very clean way to get protein in your body.

Speaker 1:

Wow, thank you for that. That's really, really insightful. No, it's, it's good because I think you know, often you can speak to people about functional drinks and you know they can mention, you know, lion's mane or l-theanine, but I said, but why? Why do I want that in my drink? What's it doing for me and how does it fit into to my lifestyle? Um, but it sounds like this although obviously your sort of ideal customer advertise is around the sports element uh, people either participating or at home watching the footage uh, that this could also fit into. Uh, the last of just your average loner drinker who might need to, you know, up their protein intake exactly that like we.

Speaker 2:

We, let's say, our dream avatar or our audience, is, is, and our marketing is targeted towards um, athletes, um, but it is something that can can help anyone and, as I said, like, if you're already having a non-alcohol beer this is how I feel now anyway then why wouldn't you just have a non-alcohol beer? Um, that has some additional health benefits for you, that helps you hit and meet those protein goals. So, same way as um. In that confectionery market, instead of going for a cadbury's bar, you're now going to go for an Oreo grenade bar, even though it costs three or four times more, because it's got that big thing that says 20 grams of protein on it. Because you know it's more beneficial to your body and it doesn't taste as good as the other chocolate bar and it's four times more expensive, but you'll still buy it yeah, absolutely, and then she's sort of chewing on it forever with those things my husband eats them all the time it's

Speaker 1:

like this is just it's not worth it. You mentioned, like that, the the health um uh side of beer and that perspective that that people have obviously beer with alcohol. Any health benefits that might be in there is going to be marred by the fact that the alcohol is there. Alcohol-free beer is having its own challenges with things like sugars and other ingredients that might go in there. Now you mentioned that yours is low calorie. I believe it's low sugar as well, and also hops, which obviously is the main ingredients of beer, are actually quite health giving. I think people don't recognize that hops by themselves are actually quite good for you. I don't know all the chemical, scientific reasons why. So it sounds like this could be part of sort of a healthier lifestyle change as well. Is it low sugar as well?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yes, so let me just double check. I think it's 0.1 grams of sugar per 100 mil. I was going to grab a can, but pull my whole computer off if I do that. Um, I think it's 0.1 grams of sugar per 100 mil where typical lady eyes on yeah 0.3 0.3 grams per 100 mil so yeah, so one.

Speaker 2:

So it's one gram of sugar basically per can. I think to be considered a low sugar item you have to have less than five grams of sugar per 100 mil, which is crazy. That that's low. But a normal non-alcoholic beer is probably around one to 1.5 grams per 100 mil when we're not free. So probably 30 to 100 like less sugar than a regular non-alcohol beer. So we're definitely low on the sugar side that's fantastic.

Speaker 1:

It sounds like it's got so much uh great stuff going for it.

Speaker 1:

I can really see this as being, uh, like I said, the start of a category that's really going to gain more traction and also in places you know we've mentioned that, the sporting events as well but I know when we spoke before there's it going to gain more traction and also in places you know we've mentioned the sporting events as well, but I know, when we spoke before, it seems to me that there's a great opportunity, because we're talking a lot at the moment about getting more low-end quality, low-end options into venues excuse me for people to be able to have a good choice when they're going out, and I could definitely see something like this in, uh like sort of competitive socializing spaces which are really taking off at the moment yeah, you know sort of what?

Speaker 1:

what you know, the swingers and that sort of thing yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I think that's an area that we haven't quite nailed yet and that we would really really love to, but that kind of like, yeah, darts bars, mini golf bars, um, shuffleboard bars, like that type of thing, where there's that competitive element and people aren't necessarily going for the night out, they're going for meet up with their mates. It's like, you know, they're not going for a big night out, they're going to do something fun and do an activity. Um, I think that's an area for us where we see a lot, of, a lot of potential. It's just probably, like we said, that we've got a lot going for our product.

Speaker 2:

It's actually quite hard to communicate all of that and you know, we spoke for half an hour now and there's still more I could say about the different things that we've got going for our product. So we have to be very, I suppose, nailed down in what it is we're trying to achieve and what is our main core main like core audience. But yes, I do see, like those, those bars as an area for us. We've not managed to get any listings in anywhere like that at this stage and I think we are still, you know, a bit of an early adopter type of product. So some people get it and they love it and some people still like what's the point? No, I don't get it.

Speaker 1:

Put the alcohol back in that type of thing so we are coming up against a few challenges and obstacles when it comes to getting those types of listings yeah, I mean, first of all, it's it's early days and the whole category is having that sort of struggle to to get. I mean, obviously there's a few that have done it really well, but people in your position, so it's, it's, it's the ongoing journey, um, it's, it's interesting to you say you know, people are saying you know what's the point, put, put the booze back in. Uh, we're hoping, aren't we, that that that rhetoric is no longer needed, that people are starting to to get it, but not everyone's there yet, are they?

Speaker 2:

no, I did a crossfit event at the weekend, so remember crossfit. So crazy workouts, fitness community. I pitched up at like 9 am and the first person that came to speak to me goes you've got an alcoholic version. I was like, oh no, not this again.

Speaker 1:

The second person that came to speak to me have you got an alcoholic version?

Speaker 2:

I'm like no. And then you know, eventually we get that. But you know, and there's the social media trolling A lot of it is about. You know what's the point Make an unpolit version, et cetera. I'm sure if you made an unpolit version, I guarantee you it would do really, really well because of the fact that there would be demand for it. But it completely goes against our brand mission, our values, which is to be brewed for a stronger version of yourself.

Speaker 1:

um, okay, so as much as we could do, that it's not something we would ever ever go into absolutely stand your ground. I mean, this is, this is who you are and, like many of the best founders out there, you, you and your lovely wife have decided to solve for a problem that you know exists because you are facing it yourself. Uh, and yeah, I mean, as you could make an alcoholic version and it probably would fly off the shelves, but that doesn't mean that it's what should be done.

Speaker 1:

You know, leave that to those who are still in the in the in the booze booze booze business exactly. Um, what else do you? Would you like people to know about Lifted, because you mentioned that there are tons of things that you could say, but in terms of people really understanding the brand, what is it that you would like listeners to know?

Speaker 2:

So I think, from like a product point of view, just that we are like the only people that are doing this in the uk.

Speaker 2:

Um, you know, and we have been sort of really working hard to to get the, the brand, out there and hopefully, some of you will have already heard of it and know about us, and I think that the other thing is that we really are wanting this to be a product that is for, like you know, the high achievers, the people that you know want to make progress, the people that are putting the work in, the people that are um you know they said, looking after their family, doing the right things, making the right um habits and having the right rituals in place. That's who we are. We, we know we're not for everyone. We, we get that and, um, we're happy with that. We, we embrace that, but we are, are for those people that really want to push themselves and progress.

Speaker 2:

So I think, that's it really, and there's a tendency to always talk about the features of your product in terms of. I'll list them out we're 10 grams of protein per can. We're vegan, we're low calorie, we're low sugar. We've only got five ingredients. We have a lot going for us, and that's the tendency is to always go feature-led, but actually we want to kind of be a bit more led by. This is the product you want to be seen with. Like, if you're at the barbecue drinking a can of lifted, you're the one that's got the status symbol, because you're the one going no, I'm all right, I'm just going to have my can lifted.

Speaker 1:

And that's kind of where we, where we see ourselves nice, very, very nicely said totally uh, let's remind people where they can go and, uh, buy the beer and find out more about you yeah, so it's um liftedbrewingcom, or on instagram it's lifted underscore brewing or on tiktok it's lifted brewing okay, fantastic.

Speaker 1:

um, it's been really interesting talking to you and finding out more about this. I I love, uh, that we get to to bring something that people might not have heard about before, might not have considered before, and hopefully something new for people to try and go and experiment and investigate with. So do go and check it out, guys. Thank you, it's time now, before I let you go, for my final question, tony, which is one that I ask everybody who comes on the pod, because I believe in spreading the low no light love around the world. So you mentioned a barbecue earlier on. You preempted, you knew what question was coming. So we've had some lovely sunny days lately. So barbecue season is upon us and you are off to a barbecue with your wife, with your mates, and you are bringing some great low no drinks along with you.

Speaker 1:

now, obviously, several cases of lifted, of course everybody to enjoy yeah, but other than your own brand, what else would you be bringing along to enjoy a barbecue?

Speaker 2:

you know what. It might be unpopular opinion, okay, but I do like the uh punk ip non-alcoholic Punk IPA. I think that is because it's so accessible. You can pick it up, like I've got a co-op a few minutes from me and if I'm out of lifted I'll pick up the Punk IPA. If I had a bit more time and foresight and prep and I was ordering in advance the barbecue, I'd probably go for a Big Drop or something like that. It would be a beer. I'm a beer drinker, so I would go for another non-ac beer and I think big drop make really good products. Um, I was drinking them way before we started lifted. They're actually some of the inspiration for, like, what we wanted to achieve and create. So thank you to those and uh, yeah, that's what I would have yeah, punchy flavors with big drop as well yeah yeah, and I was speaking to.

Speaker 1:

I spoke to rob on the podcast many, many episodes ago uh, lovely, lovely chap, and they're really making uh great beers that sort of when you want that fuller flavor, more akin to a fuller, a full strength alcohol, because they've got that sort of hop forward flavor. So that's a couple of great choices there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, go ahead. As I said, that's what I would go for. I've always been more hoppy aily kind of beer drinker, and that's why I think I've loved their products so much, because I think that they are hot forward and they have a punch, yeah, and I like what you mentioned about the Brewdog Punk IPA, because they are everywhere and it is like I said before.

Speaker 1:

some brands uh are doing very well in the supermarkets as in they're in there. Uh, as I've discussed on many other episodes, just because a brand is in the supermarket doesn't mean they're actually making loads and loads of money. It's very expensive to be in in supermarkets, but it is good that we're now seeing more and more low-no and light products available in more spaces. And it used to be just your big supermarkets. But now you're right If you're popping into someone's house and you haven't got anything, you can now go into your Tesco, metro or your Sainsbury's Local or just your co-op and you can still find options in the smaller stores as well.

Speaker 2:

I think in my co-op we've got and it's only a small one there's Corona Zero, amaretti Zero, peroni Zero, Brewdog. I think there's Adams Zero, which is like an ale, and a couple of ciders. I'm like that's crazy to have all of that selection in a tiny co-op, right to have like five or six options.

Speaker 1:

It's great. It's fantastic the times they really are. A change in tony. There we go. Thank you so much for joining me today. It has been great chatting to you and good luck with everything you're doing. I think it sounds like a fantastic project.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much having me. It's been a pleasure.

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Denise Hamilton-Mace

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