Sober Curious, Mindful & Alcohol-Free Drinkers Podcast: Low No Drinker
The Low No Drinker Podcast is the place to come and meet the people, places and brands leading the low, no and light alcohol revolution! It’s your introduction to a life less intoxicated with no judgment, no pressure and no expectation.
Get closer to the people behind the drinks that make it possible for you to live a life less intoxicated, whether that’s for a night, a week, a month, a year or a lifetime, and the industry experts bringing it all to your door.
Find out what motivates them, what their own journey was like and why you should try their amazing drinks.
Then, in our second weekly episode, it's time to dive into the hows and whys of low, no and light drinks, drinkers and drinking.
In these solo episodes, I help you answer questions like:
- Why do alcohol-free drinks cost the same as full-strength ones when they don't have any booze?
- Why can't I find a non-alcoholic red wine that I like?
- What the heck is ABV anyway?
Join me, Denise Hamilton-Mace, the founder and editor of Low No Drinker Magazine, the leading GLOBAL magazine for mindful and sober curious drinkers, as I help you find, understand and enjoy the drinks that allow us all to live a life less intoxicated.
Sober Curious, Mindful & Alcohol-Free Drinkers Podcast: Low No Drinker
#90. How Lucky Saint Is Brewing Beer You Can Believe In (Even at Lunchtime)
This week, I’m joined by Lou Pollitt from Lucky Saint, the UK’s best-known alcohol-free beer.
We talk about how the brand’s evolved since launching back in 2018, why they stuck so firmly to perfecting just one lager for so long, and how brewing to the German Rheinheitsgebot purity law plays into that commitment to quality.
Lou also shares some insight into their newest release —a Lemon Lager, and their less new IPA, plus we chat about the growing presence of alcohol-free options in workplaces, what it really means to build a community around a brand, and how Lucky Saint’s pub and running club are helping do just that.
And if you love a stat as much as Lou & I do: Lucky Saint is available on draught in over 1,000 pubs in the UK!
0:00 Lou's story
4:23 The Lucky Saint's story
5:37 A dedicated approach
9:40 Traditionally unfiltered lager
11:40 Hazy IPA
14:45 New Lemon Lager
20:05 Lunchtime meal-deal beers
25:13 Lucky Saint on flights
26:45 Is Lucky Saint for sober drinkers?
29:33 The joy of draught
36:11 The Lucky Saint Pub
38:43 Lucky Saint & sports
42:00 The Lucky Saint Nun
44:53 The BBQ-Q
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#82 “I Thought Alcohol-Free Beer Was Disgusting” How Jump Ship’s Founder Changed Her Mind
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Hello, hello and welcome to this week's conversation on the Low-No Drinker podcast, bringing you closer to the people, places and brands leading the low, no and light alcohol revolution. Lou Pollitt has a unique role in the low-no space. For just over the last two years, she has been the category and insights director for Lucky Saint, the country's leading alcohol-free beer brand. Now it's doubtful that you need me to introduce Lucky Saint any further.
Speaker 1:If you have been in this space for any length of time, or even if you're brand new to this way of drinking, you've likely seen them advertised on billboards and tube stations and even as part of your lunchtime meal deal in your local supermarket. Heck, you can even sit back and relax 30,000 feet in the air on short haul flights with British Airways now with a can of Lucky Saint. And today Lou has kindly agreed to join me to chat about the phenomenal brand journey where Lucky Saint sits within, the way that you want to drink and the trends driving the industry and how they impact brand decisions. So thank you so much for joining me today, lou. How are you doing?
Speaker 2:Great thanks. I'm really privileged to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm very glad to have you here. I mean, I can't have a podcast about alcohol-free drinking without having somebody from Lucky Saint come on and talk about, as I said, the phenomenal journey that the brand has gone on. But it's not just a brand. It is the people behind it that make it happen, make it relatable, make it enjoyable. So I'm really excited to find out more about all of that. I always like to ask my guests to start with sharing some of their journey, some of the brand journey. So start where you want to start. What was the journey that led you to being where you are today, and how does that all fit in with the Lucky Saint journey?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've been really lucky to have some great brands in the FMCG space over the course of my career people like Innocent Drinks, lotus, biscoff but actually I've always had a real love for the pub as a social hub.
Speaker 2:You know, when I was a kid all the best walks ended in the pub garden with a packet of walkers, crisps and a lemonade, and then it was a car scale with my dad, again with scrubber, with friends, um. So that social hub, the conversations you have the, the chance to uh switch off, I guess, from some of everyday life is really important to me, uh. But the longer I spent um working in food and drink brands, uh, the off, I guess, from some of everyday life is really important to me, uh. But the longer I spent um working in food and drink brands, uh, the more I started to kind of question my own choices around health, um, and what I was looking for um from food and drink. And actually that's kind of what led me to Lucky Saint to to work for um, a brand that can feel super proud of the product but also still contributing to that kind of special social element of drinking at the same time is a real luxury.
Speaker 1:That is so true what you say about the pub. I think it's such an integral part of who we are as a society and as a culture and obviously we'll talk about the wonderful Lucky Saint pub as we go along. If anyone doesn't know that Lucky Saint have their own pub. It's wonderful, but yeah, it's so important. I think that, no matter what happens with our drinking choice and our lifestyle choices, I think that we still need to protect our pubs and that, coming together where I live, there are obviously quite a few pubs, but they're such a community hub, aren't?
Speaker 2:they? Yeah, definitely. I was up in Yorkshire this weekend and the conversations you have with people that like maybe you met six months ago when you were there, maybe you've never chatted to them before Just so much more diverse across the age range, across demographics, than you would necessarily encounter on a daily basis otherwise.
Speaker 1:And, yeah, I think it's such an important part of our cultural fabric and that's why I think it's so important that we help um again we'll talk about you had a great campaign throughout dry January. We help people know that just because you're choosing to drink differently doesn't mean that you can't still go to the pub. Now, obviously, there are some people or caveat that in this space, we respect the fact that some people might not feel comfortable going to a pub and that's absolutely their prerogative.
Speaker 1:But for those who are still happy to be around others consuming alcohol, um, having campaigns like your thou shalt go to the pub campaign, I think is is amazing. So we'll talk about that in a second. Can you tell me a little bit about the Lucky Saint journey? As we know the brand today?
Speaker 2:Yes, so Luke, our founder, started the brand in 2018. He basically, I guess, just questioned why he couldn't find an alcohol free beer. That would just be just as good as a full strength one on the occasions that he was choosing to drink or not drink. Um, it took a lot of hard work, a lot of different uh countries and breweries involved in that process, to get to the product we have today.
Speaker 2:Um, but, yeah, to just reward people that are not drinking with it with a beer that's equal in quality to um, the best that you can get from it an alcoholic drink is is a no mean feat, and the fact that we leave our from it An alcoholic drink is no mean feat. The fact that we leave our lager unfiltered, I think, was a big step at the time. That wasn't really something that you saw, even in the full strength market. So to do that, to give the beer the extra body, was a real game changer at that point in time. We obviously had the lager for five years without doing any innovation around that liquid, and we now have an IPA, and you just touched on in the conversation before our brand new lemon lager, which I'm so excited about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's. I really love that and I want to talk to you about that as well the fact that you did for such a long time as a brand famously within this space and within beverage in general, have just the one skew. The skew is the sort of technical term for one product.
Speaker 1:Yeah founders, and some of them were quite adamant that when they launched that, for them to have success they needed to have three, four, some maybe even more different drinks in their range. What was it that made luke and the team go? Do you know what we're just going to do?
Speaker 2:one, yeah, I think the fact that it's the lager is really important there, because obviously, um, craft beer is amazing. There's a lot of chat about stout at the moment but at the end of the day, something like two thirds of all the beer that's consumed in the UK is still lager. So if you can crack that one segment and do it really well, there's a big audience to address there. And I think also just recognising that it does take time to build the brand and just consistency, showing people the same thing we still focus on the lager when we do our media campaigns as our hero product, um is really important.
Speaker 2:Obviously, there are different ways to build a brand. There's a more kind of craft brewery approach where you, you innovate across flavors. But I think having that one product and putting all our focus and energy behind it is definitely part of the reason why we've succeeded. Um, and being dedicated and not producing an alcoholic version is also a bit of a superpower in itself, because you're not trying to recreate a specific liquid and then add a zero to the end of it. Um, you have the sort of freedom to do the best possible version of what you're trying to achieve and if you think you've got that, then I think sticking by your guns there and really pushing that is a brave but quite important thing for us to have done.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. And I like what you say about the fact that, coming out, the Gate is a dedicated brand. Not only were you not doing other types of alcohol-free beer, you also weren't trying to do an alcohol-full version and an alcohol free version. Um, but that must have been quite tough. I mean, I know you weren't there at the very beginning, but you know from your conversations with Luke and the team about how it was to to launch having a single item, dedicated alcohol free beer brand, five years ago, if you, you know, when people weren't, really they hadn't bought into it as much as they had now definitely.
Speaker 2:Um no, I think that's completely true. I mean, you see that in the way behaviors have changed around the events we run, for example, you know we have big customer trade events and three years ago we were kind of stuck in the corner. People were coming to get a pint and like giving it to their friends as a bit of a joke, and now we have so many people actively coming up to us to say OK, I've had enough, I really want a lucky saint.
Speaker 2:So even in a very short space of time that has evolved. I think the grocery retailers have done a lot to help in terms of visibility and the way that they've added lots of extra signage in store. But you are right, it's hard to get cut through with just one product sat on the shelf or in the really complicated on trade market with all of its different routes to market. I think just as a average pub goer, you have no idea how difficult it is to kind of work out who supplies who and what sits where in that side of the industry. So yeah, we've been really lucky to have the right people in place to navigate all that as well yeah, it's, it's a minefield.
Speaker 1:So I come from a hospitality background and just you know I I know that getting products onto the bar even from a service point of view is yeah, it's complicated, like I remember when I first started having to order things and understand how you get stuff from. Okay, you can't get this because it's not from this distributor, but you have to get this from there. And so, from the brand side, you guys trying to figure out how you just get a drink in someone's hand is is just it's not minus the big beer budget, so yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:well, let's talk about this first one then. So, for those of you watching on youtube, you can see behind me I have, uh, two of the amazing three SKUs that they have, and we'll talk about that in a moment, but your first and most famous is this beautiful blue can, but it's also available in bottle as well.
Speaker 2:And on draft.
Speaker 1:And on draft, of course. So what's the flavour profile? Tell me a little bit about. You mentioned that it was unfiltered.
Speaker 2:Tell me a little bit about that, pilsner yeah, traditional kind of going back to the home of brewing Bavaria.
Speaker 2:It's created to the Reinheitsgebot, which is the German beer purity law, if anyone wants to build a beer account um, so it's got four ingredients, um, and I guess that's the other thing that's really interesting about these products that actually, compared to soft drinks as well as alcohol, they're very clean, um, when you're thinking about all the conversations about ultra processed food, um, and things like that at the moment. But yeah, we've touched on the fact that it's unfiltered. Uh, lager is a difficult beer to brew. There's not much to hide behind. It's got a very clean, crisp profile, um bit malty. Hopefully some of you have already tried it, uh, but if not, then get out there and have a taste absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that that, ryan holtz. See, I can't say it. I really embarrassed myself once trying to talk to somebody about it and just had it like a complete pillock. So I that's why I don't try anymore. It's that. That's the purity laws about how drinks are made. So it's a traditional recipe. This isn't just you going and like picking some random bits and pieces from from out the air.
Speaker 2:This is traditional brewing, exactly. I mean, um, obviously we have a lot of modern food standards, but I think this is probably the oldest. I think it's the oldest food standards legislation in the world. Someone told me don't want to fact check that one right now, but, um, yes, it's. It's really important to us to to produce a really clean product. Um, no residual sugars in there, um, and it's just very crisp and refreshing it really is, it really is.
Speaker 1:And then so you were producing the lager for by itself for quite some time, and then you guys went. You know what? I think we've got this down. We like what we've got, what we're doing. We're reaching a few people and we hear the people cry that they want more. So then you decided to produce your next one. So yes, this one here.
Speaker 2:So this is our IPA. We knew we weren't going to do. You know, multiple different variants of a parallel IPA, so getting it right in one go, I guess, was the challenge with this one. Obviously, you've got quite different styles in that sector West Coast, new England, all of the different options that you can have in terms of tropical or piney profiles so getting that balance was the real challenge for this and hopefully we've got something that is very um, I don't know if you say sessionable in the same way, in terms of it not having the ABV attached to it, but very drinkable and it's not sort of your equivalent of a 9%, so much flavour packed in there. But you don't want to go back for a second can?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah absolutely yeah, the hot profile in there is hopefully very balanced and and uh, yeah again, give it a go I think that's important, isn't?
Speaker 1:it is that balance, because when you've taken the alcohol away, or you've not put it in, or however, an alcohol-free beer is being produced. There is nothing, as you say, to hide behind you know, it's got to be perfectly balanced. That hop can't be too intense, it can't be too biscuity, it can't be too. There's so many different things, yeah, but then you've got to balance that with the fact that there are so many different types. Like you say, people like different flavors. They like some like really heavy hoppy beer, some like quite light one, so I like that.
Speaker 1:You said look, we only want to do this one, so we want to get it right. So I can imagine there must have been quite a lot of taste and trial and error. And you know, for a brand like yours is there a lot of trial and error, or do you just smash it out the park?
Speaker 2:No, it's a really labour intensive process and I think that's where kind of Luke's passion for beer really comes into it. We've got some other people in the team who are incredibly articulate in terms of describing the flavor profiles and would have done a much better job than I did just then. But, um, thankfully, um, we can kind of depend on them for those iterations and the taste profile. And, yeah, brewing something to full strength and then de-alking it does change the profile, regardless of how you do that, um. So understanding what impact that's going to have and brewing the full strength beer to ensure that there's the 0.5 that you end up with is the one that you want, um is is the real skill there, which is definitely not my hero yeah, that's a whole different show.
Speaker 1:It's a whole different episode, isn't it sort of how, how it's all done? Uh, I will be doing that for people. So I'm actually going to look at a series of how it's made style things because I think it's fascinating.
Speaker 2:It is really interesting the more you dig into it.
Speaker 1:Especially if you're a couple of drinks geeks like us and then you have. Now, if you're watching on YouTube, I don't have this one to show you, because this is a good problem to have. I went to go and pick up some of your lemon lager, which is your new one, and it's sold out.
Speaker 2:So tell me about your latest drink in this time of year absolutely, and uh, we couldn't have had better weather for our launch there. Obviously, those things are quite hard to predict here in the uk, but, um, very fortuitous, uh timing, um, a beautiful bright yellow can. It's got amazing standout on shelf and again like a very clean natural product.
Speaker 1:So we did a lot of taste testing of full strength Radler.
Speaker 2:Shandy fruit lagers. There's so many different names for similar types of products out there. That was also a big challenge, and some of them are very lemonadey um. A lot of them have got uh sweeteners in. We didn't want to go down that route because we didn't want to compromise on what we've been talking about in terms of the clean ingredients deck um, and hopefully what we've ended up there um with is a incredibly refreshing drinkable um, hopefully all year round uh proposition with uh just uh sort of citrusy overtones. Um, and our lager still coming through underneath.
Speaker 1:So it's not disguising the beer, it's um sort of accenting it no, I think it's really exciting that to see a brand like yours that has done uh so well for in this space, uh, and then seeing an evolution and a growth into these new avenues to help serve people more and bringing out like a lemon lager in this space, because there aren't many out there. I'm having a look around in terms of alcohol-free lemon lagers there's a couple of Shandy's, there's a couple of mid-strength ones, um, but there aren't many particularly british, british brewed lemon lagers in the alcohol-free space.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think historically it's been a bit of an overlooked segment. I mean, it's so popular in other places on the continent as a style fruit beers more generally, and it has seen really significant growth. Um in the full strength space recently. Obviously, um, you've seen brands like jubail brew dog doing their peach um variant. But, um, yeah, we, we were kind of already in the process thinking about this um whilst all that's happening. So I think we've we've hopefully timed it pretty well there, um, and doing something consistent with that as well, because you can order a shandy in the pub but you have no real idea like what ABV is going to end up being if you're ordering it to try and not drink as much, or whether it's going to be a consistent serve. It sometimes tastes just of lemonade and sometimes it's more like a lard top, or you know, it's a great product when it's done well, but it isn't always the same. So doing that in this space, I think, is really interesting.
Speaker 1:That's so true, the amount of times you can order a Shandy, and then it just depends on who's pouring it, how much attention they're paying to it, what lagers they're using for it. It tastes different all the time, and the quality of the lemonade as well, because I think that's really important, depending on what they're using a bag in box, or whether it's a good brand or not yeah, so yeah, we've steered away from that lemonade edition and we've got natural lemon, um citrus extracts, a little bit of sugar, but um, still very low sugar.
Speaker 2:Uh so yeah, again another one we're quite proud of and I think it does help us move into spaces beyond beer as well. Um, you know, if you're more nervous about really beery beers, um, a good place to start, uh, but also just in terms of it feels more appropriate, uh, for occasions that maybe beer isn't necessarily the traditional choice at, so trying to branch out further into lunchtimes and those refreshment moments.
Speaker 1:A bit more Absolutely Now. You mentioned lunchtimes. I have to ask you about this phenomenal new partnership Well, it's not that new actually, anymore, is it that you have with some high street supermarkets? Because Lucky Saint is now not only available in the supermarket but it's now available as part of a lunchtime meal deal, and I know that you guys have done quite a bit of research about this. I saw tons and tons of posts and comments and articles. There was even one in my magazine about when you launched it. It's that whole lunchtime drinking opportunity that has now been made available. Yeah, but obviously without the intoxication. What was some of the the decision process and and the thought process that went behind how this all came about?
Speaker 2:yeah. So we're lucky to have some very good relationships with our retailers, which helps to start with uh to branch out into a kind of different place in store um and get, and you know, getting them to to back us for that um and put us um into that deal, uh was a great win to start with. I guess the next step for us is just educating people around why it's such a great choice um at that time of day, um. And again it sort of comes back to the some of the health credentials we were talking about earlier. Some of the best-selling products in those meal deals got over 50 grams of sugar um in one bottle, which is quite mad when you think about it yeah, um, and ours is is sugar-free um and I
Speaker 2:think, yeah, the the other interesting thing there is just that kind of general acceptance of low and no products. Uh, the fact that we're a dedicated brand and we can't be mistaken for somebody you know, uh, drinking a, something zero at their desk at lunchtime with the real thing um, I think also helps us. Uh, we did some work with cam last year as part of the low and no study. We actually asked people about the acceptability of um seeing their colleague drinking an alcohol-free beer at lunchtime and 75 percent of consumers said that they would find it perfectly acceptable even higher for kind of younger consumers who are maybe more aware um, of these products.
Speaker 2:So I think that has definitely shifted over time as well, because I'm not sure that would have been the case, you know, three or four years ago when there were fewer brands in the market and the visibility wasn't wasn't there Reading some of the comments? There was a big media piece on it earlier this year and it got picked up and some of the comments underneath that. That was quite insightful for me as a sort of data person into how the category is moving, because a lot of people were saying do you realise there's actually no sugar in this, it's only four ingredients and I think the narrative maybe three or four years ago would have been a lot more around like the beer side of it, so that in itself is quite interesting and I think it does make a difference that you are a dedicated brand, because I do to play devil's advocate.
Speaker 1:You do have to wonder how somebody would feel if they saw. Um, I won't name another brand, but let's say a big brand, beer that has a zero percent version. Uh, was sitting on the desk of, say, your doctor when you went in you know yeah and I don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think we're ever going to get to kind of 100 acceptance for that reason. There's always going to be environments where these things are more sensitive. Um you, hospitals, that kind of place. Things maybe aren't as clear cut, but I think for a lot of consumers it's a really great option to add to the mix and variety of what's out there in those meal deals and hopefully even more traction to come in the next few months.
Speaker 1:And it offers, doesn't it that sort of?
Speaker 1:Because a lot of people will use a beer alcohol, you know as a stress relief.
Speaker 1:You know and obviously we're not here to talk about, uh, the reasons why people use alcohol, but the fact is that people will turn to it and those times you're like maybe you've just come out of a stressful meeting, maybe you've got to go and speak to the boss about something, maybe you're just having a really crappy day and you're like I could really do a beer, but you still got work to do and you don't want to go back and be intoxicated.
Speaker 1:I was speaking to there's a chap called Martin Dixon who writes the beer feature for Lone I Drinker magazine and he has a bar in in Sweden where he lives, and he was talking about some road workers who were doing some manual labor outside and one of them just had a really tough morning and he wanted to have a beer. And he came into the bar, asked for an alcohol-free beer, knew exactly what he wanted, sat down, knocked it back in the same way that people would scull a pint. I went oh, I really, really needed that put on his hard hat and went back out to work yeah, I mean, we all have these rituals around.
Speaker 2:You know whether it's a cup of tea with a biscuit or a beer or whatever it is. I think it's each to their own, but I can definitely see a role for it in that space.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely Excuse me. And now I mentioned the introduction, you're also available on flights as well. Yes, yeah, that's's exciting.
Speaker 2:It is very exciting. Um, yeah, I guess the the more places people see us um, the the better it is for us as a brand. And you know you have quite a long time to read through those magazines in the back of the seat sometimes.
Speaker 1:So hopefully teach a few more people about lucky saint in the process absolutely, if anyone's out there listening, from any airlines, you can put loner drinker magazine in the back. There they can have a loner drinker magazine, a lucky saint and you've got a nice happy flight, you know, yeah there's definitely more talk around alcohol appropriateness in airports and on planes.
Speaker 2:So you know, I think again um tapping into some of the the bigger macro trends around that as well definitely, because I think on flights it you kind of obviously you get lost in time and space, don't you?
Speaker 1:there is no sort of grounding for what time is it? And then it's the whole. It's five o'clock somewhere, sort of approach to it. Being able to sit there and have, and also drinking on flights makes you. It has some sort of weird reaction inside your body. For me, I always felt really queasy having alcohol on flights pressure or something.
Speaker 2:There's definitely been some calls recently um by some of the big airline CEOs for tighter controls around that, which I guess is an interesting one for us, Absolutely so.
Speaker 1:In that vein, then you know, where is it that you see Lucky Saint sitting in a drinker's repertoire? Are you going for the sober drinker Is this for? Because I know you guys are also very closely related to a lot of sporting activity. Is that your main target market?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think, um, we like to think that we're an incredibly inclusive brand. Uh, so a lot of people who work in the office still drink full strength alcohol as well. Um, some people don't, um, and I think that's. That's probably the joy of it. You know, um, you do hear stories people asking for it in an unbranded glass or they want to make a statement kind of both ends of the spectrum is totally fine with us. Um, I think the fact that we have such a strong brand that you can be really proud to drink is is pretty amazing. Um, but equally, if someone just wants to fit in with their friends on night out, then give them two yeah, that's an interesting one.
Speaker 1:I've had a couple of people bringing that up lately as to whether or not, when they have an alcohol-free drink, they'd want it in a branded glass. I've heard of a lot of people, sort of the Guinness zero, saying that they just want it in a regular uh, guinness glass, and I think it's quite interesting now that some people, as you say, are quite happy to go. Do you know what? This is, a zero or this is an alcohol free? You know, I'm I'm look, look says it on the glass.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and others want um to just not have it be part of the conversation and I guess whatever makes people feel comfortable in that situation, like hopefully we are shifting towards a society where this is a more acceptable way of drinking behaving generally. But you know there's still going to be people that would rather just not talk about it, and that's also totally fine.
Speaker 1:And I always say you know it is nobody else's business. And I always say you know it is nobody else's business If you're choosing to drink low, low or light or whatever. You're choosing to drink for whatever reason you don't need to justify it to anybody else. We are moving to a time where that is more acceptable. You're right, we are moving into a society where it is more commonplace. There are more people asking for it.
Speaker 1:And there are. It is not so much of a stigma as it would have been, you know, even 10 years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think things have changed quite a bit. Yeah, and the range of products out there has definitely helped with that. The quality of those and giving people something that they don't have to feel uncomfortable, a bit like either hard done by or not particularly proud of um, yeah, I think the quality is so important, so important, you know.
Speaker 1:You talk about the fact that you know only using the, the ingredients that you need, sticking to uh traditional brewing techniques being unfiltered, lots of research and development, because gone are the days where people will just accept uh shoddy, poor example.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one sort of sad dusty bottle behind the bar and I think that's partly where the joy of draft comes in as well, because it is that sort of equal experience with everyone else in the pub In that sense. Going back to the rituals, just that point in the pub is one of the most important ones for a lot of people, so I'm focusing on that definitely, definitely.
Speaker 1:We were talking before we press play about uh um Sonia from uh yes, jump Ship.
Speaker 1:And when I spoke to her, she made a really great point, a statement. I quoted her and she said you know, you can't get a pint at home. You can only get a pint in the pub. You know, and it's so true that that feeling that it gives you um, speaking of which I'd love to talk about the the Lucky Saint draft journey for anyone who hasn't yet been to the Lucky Saint website, and obviously I'll ask Lou to give us all the details of where you can find Lucky Saint, but she won't be able to list everywhere that it's available, because you'll see a fantastic map. What does that map show on on your website?
Speaker 2:yes, we have a brilliant tap map, um, you can search there for the nearest place serving lucky saint on draft. So if you're somewhere new in the country or you've just never tried us before and you want to explore, put your postcode in and it'll tell you where we're stocked and definitely go and give it a try. Um january, we used that for our activation that you you referred to earlier. So we ran a big campaign called uh, thou shalt go to the pub, um, which, uh, I can't. Again, my team did that bit, not not me. So I feel a bit like I'm taking credit for somebody else's work here. But, um, it's absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2:Uh, last year we ran it with one customer and this year we had 15 different pub groups on board, which is no mean feat logistically, um, and our redemption rates on those coupons were something like 32 percent versus the industry average of nine. So great to see that people really want the product, they're engaged in it. They're going to redeem a free pint and a lot of the people that were redeeming those free pints three and four were not going to a pub that they were a regular at. So again, we're driving footfall into venues at what can be quite a difficult time of year post Christmas, and then when they go, they take their friend, they stay for another Lucky Saint or a full strength beer or they buy some food, so delivering 16 pounds worth of incremental value to the venue for every pint that we gave away. And I think we we are really proud of that as a brand, because it's not always easy for the hospitality industry to be able to do something positive to contribute towards that and it's quite important to us.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I always say to when I'm speaking at events. It's not just about having the alcohol free drink for the alcohol free person. It's about all the friends that they bring with them, excuse me, it's about all the occasions that they they might come back for. It's about the service and the welcome that they feel because they know that you're, you're, prepared to cater for their, for their needs I think that's fantastic and um, do you know? Absolutely fine, if you don't off the top of your head how many pubs you are available in.
Speaker 2:In draft yeah, um, over a thousand now. Um, so, yeah, uh, you can find them all on on the map there.
Speaker 2:Um, have a look but we are really proud of that and we're very focused on you know, the quality of the serve, education the team behind the bar and making sure that you get the best possible pint every time, because for some people, this will be the first time they're trying the category. There's still a lot of new adopters coming in, so making sure that that is a really great experience is important to us that's phenomenal.
Speaker 1:A thousand venues, that's, that's huge. Well, congratulations. You should well be very proud. Proud of that is it. Is it still challenging getting venues to uh come around to the idea of having an alcohol-free draft line?
Speaker 2:um, I think it's becoming more normalized and people are seeing the potential for it, um, as they see their sales of bottle grow, for example.
Speaker 2:Okay, and from the fridge, and you know, even from just a common sense perspective, people don't tend to walk out of a pub because there's only two lager choices rather than three. So the argument that there aren't enough lines on the bar it's controlled by a lot of factors. Obviously we don't need to get into to all of those now, but, um, trying something different on that third tap, uh, we've managed to demonstrate that nine and ten of the pints that you serve of lucky saint will be incremental to your existing draft lager offering. So it's not stealing share. It's coming from um additional drinks. So maybe people trading up from soft drinks or a tap water, some of it from low and no sales from from the fridge behind um, but overwhelmingly delivering more, more value to venues, um, and that narrative, I think, is kind of gaining more momentum and people starting to understand that it's actually quite a different offering from anything else that they've got. Uh, so this sort of space argument doesn't really stack up as much yeah, because it was uh again in that report with with cam.
Speaker 1:I think the number was something like 800 million pounds is being lost by pubs yeah, kind of left on the table from tap water and I think that's interesting.
Speaker 2:And you know we haven't spoken about zebra striping either. But the way people are choosing to drink when they're out and moderating switching between a full strength drink and a non-alcoholic drink is for a long time. But the fact that it sort of has a name attached to it now and people can discuss it as a tactic and how they're they're behaving, I think has helped that to gain a bit more momentum as well, which again hopefully drives more revenue, um, for the venues I totally agree.
Speaker 1:I think that this zebra striping, bookending, coasting, the all these new terms that are coming out are not new concepts. They are things out are not new concepts. They are things that we have been doing. Moderating People have been moderating the way that they drink since they started drinking. It's just that now they've all got fancy names.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I do like the zebra striping, though I have a little zebra on a lot of my PowerPoint slides just comes across to make sure people are awake.
Speaker 2:Um, just trotting along yeah, and we see it in our own pub as well. I guess you know as a data person, having a pub downstairs from the office is quite a fun sort of uh point of difference that we can see immediately what's happening when the when the sun shines, or we can look at kind of the performance over time of day and selling more lucky staying at lunch than we are full strength beers. All of those kind of things just feed into that that narrative and help us support our campaign for more taps absolutely so.
Speaker 1:Tell me more about this. So you, you guys, have your own pub. Uh, where is it for those who want to come and see it? And the question I always get asked you've kind of alluded it to it already is oh, is it only alcohol-free drinks? So so what goes on inside the lucky saint?
Speaker 2:um. So we have a beautiful kind of traditional london. It's in Marylebone If you haven't been, definitely come and say hello and we have the office upstairs. So I think before I joined they'd been through something like 10, nine, 10 different kind of WeWork space setups in the iteration of Lucky Sane and actually just to have a, a sort of fixed home for the brand um, and one that also kind of represents what we want to do, um, so beautifully, uh, in in a kind of physical way, is really lovely. Um, yeah, what else to say about it?
Speaker 1:it was a. It was am I correct? It was a dilapidated, abandoned pub, wasn't it? Yeah, it shut during covid.
Speaker 2:Um, like a lot of places, unfortunately. Um, it used to be called the mason's arms. Um, and uh, yeah, now a new lease of life as the lucky saint, and we do serve full strength. We serve um, no, no. Um, we have a great range of um cocktails and non-alcoholic cocktails.
Speaker 1:Um, lots lots of options. Great, great, I, I, I've, I have been. It is beautiful, uh, and if anyone is wondering, you know it's not like you walk in and and in your face they go alcohol-free drinks. You know it's just like walking into any other pub, because it is just like any other pub, apart from the fact that it's amazing, of course, um. So I highly recommend that if you're in london or you're coming to visit london and and this space interests you, it's a great place to go, uh, and you have a lot of um stuff going on there as well. I mentioned, uh, earlier on the sort of the sporty elements that you guys connect to. Don't you do some activities, some runs and things that go from the pub?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we have a run club throughout the summer and I'm actually leading the seven minute per kilometre group on Tuesday. Good pace, good pace. We're sold out of that that event, but keep your eye out. It'll be once a month. Um, over the summer I think we had over a thousand people uh wow joining us last year and it's again. It's like that inclusive, very, um, informal atmosphere. Uh, running around regents park, which is beautiful at this time of year, and then coming back to the pub for a pint of Lucky Saint and some pizza afterwards. And it was actually the Lucky Saint running club that kind of got me back into exercising. I had not really run once since my son was born over five years ago, and the idea of having to do that last year kind of spurred me on, so I'm quite proud of myself that I'm now um sort of confident enough to say that I'm not gonna pass out halfway around.
Speaker 1:Well, you should be. Yeah, it is hard, isn't it? You've got kids. You've got a couple of kids uh, for those who you know, obviously you didn't hear we were talking before a press recording, though we've both got young kids of the same age, so I know exactly what Lou is talking about and trying to get back into your fitness and your exercise and having the incentive of being able to go for a pint and pizza afterwards and know that you won't undo all of the hard work you've just done. It's fantastic, so I suppose I should get my trainers in gear and get down there as well. Yeah, come join us.
Speaker 2:I mentioned having someone to talk to on the way around. I mean, met some really interesting people last time. Um, we did it and just you know, if someone's talking to you, you're less likely to notice that you're feeling the uh, the exercise, um, so, yeah, no, I, I love that side of it. And we're sponsoring hackney half again this year, um, doing amazing brand activation there with a pop-up pub and supporting venues around the route as well. And, yeah, in Manchester too, manchester Half Marathon on the same day. So I think we're really sort of cementing our position within that community, I hope and it is. It is such a lovely, welcoming place, I guess, hopefully, like the low and no space as well itself. Um, it feels like it's got a real sense of community around it wonderful, that's really.
Speaker 1:That's really great. I've got to um. My husband's doing a tough mudder this weekend and he's really disappointed because there's no alcohol-free beer at the end of it. So if you guys can go and speak to them, yeah, send us the details but you know what we joke about it.
Speaker 1:But that's what we've got to do, right, people have got to speak to their pubs, their bars, their restaurants their events and we, as the consumer, as the drinker, have the power to change what is being made available to us, because once venues know that we want it and that we're prepared to pay for it, then they'll start getting it in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, not just treating it as an afterthought, you know, including it in things like your corporate packages, um, at christmas, making sure that everyone's catered for, basically absolutely 100.
Speaker 1:Oh, listen, I I've got loads of questions I could ask you about. Like you say, you know, the brand is absolutely uh, phenomenal. Uh, my last last few bits before I let you go. Um, I can't have you on the show and not talk briefly about the amazing marketing. Now, I know that you weren't part of the initial team, but I've got to ask you about the nun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:I mean she's wonderful, but my goodness, that is bold. Now, for those of you who may not have seen, lucky Saint's main marketing presentation is a wonderful, wonderful I want to say blue, nun, but then that makes me think of the wine, which is not the same thing at all. But tell me about that marketing presentation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess there's so much history around brewing and monasteries and religion itself that the inspiration for that is already there. And tapping into that, hopefully in a way that doesn't offend people, um, it's not, you know, any specific religious character or or anything like that, but, um, the whole drink religiously line that we use in in january, really just cementing the fact that we are appropriate for all those different moments and rituals, um, and the beautiful photography, um, I think really helps us to, uh, to be that brand that you can be proud of, I guess, yeah, it definitely makes you stand out.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know you can't walk past one of those billboards and not stop, and and take a look, and so it really helps to cement you in the minds of your consumers and and and brings intrigue. So, uh, for those watching on YouTube, I will put up some pictures that you can see, and if you're just listening, then click the links in the show notes and go and have a look. Speaking of clicking links, let's tell Lono Nation where they can go and find you. I would like you to list all 1,000 pubs when can they go and find you, and then you to list all 1000 pubs.
Speaker 2:Where can they go and find you? And then, I'll ask you my last question. Yeah, definitely visit our tap map if you want to find us on draft and we have um a great uh direct consumer business if you want to order it to your front door um tesco waitrose, sainsbury's, ocado, uh Co-op Morrison's hopefully haven't forgotten anyone, but get out there and please do tell us if you can't find the lemon on shelf, because we'll get on the phone and get some more stock in for that.
Speaker 1:It's just amazing just listening to you list that roster of places where you can be found. I'm sure you are, but you should be exceptionally proud of what you've done for this space and for people that want to drink differently. So that's fantastic. I'll make sure that there are some links in the show notes for people to be able to go and find you. Now, uh, it is time for my last question, uh, which is one that I ask everybody who comes in the show, because I truly believe in spreading the love to lono nation all around the world.
Speaker 1:So, uh, it is uh late spring, late spring, mid-spring. Uh, the weather is warming up, is is the season, uh, and we are heading into barbecue season, and I'd like you to imagine that you're off this weekend to a lovely barbecue, uh, at a friend's house, and you're bringing along some l? No or light alcohol drinks to enjoy. Now, obviously, we've made it very, very clear that, like you say, lemon lager should be top of the list for that sunny occasion, and then you've obviously got your lager and your hazy pale. But other than your own drinks, what else do you like to enjoy in that space?
Speaker 2:I love a Penthouse Brits so yeah, the guys in the pub make an excellent version of that and they're a lovely brand. They've got some great liquids too, or the real sparkling tea. I think if you want something that's a bit more of a bubbles occasion, that would be a go-to for me as well, because it's not too too sweet, still feels like it's got a bit of a sense of occasion about it. Um, and every time I've introduced people to that, they've always loved it so good, good choices.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like I, I like that real bring out their special at Christmas time as well. They have like a uh, a deep spice red berry ish yeah one that they bring out at Christmas, which, which is lovely.
Speaker 1:And Pentire Spritz yes, you've got to love a Spritz in the spring, summertime, haven't you? It says barbecue. It says garden yes, definitely, lou. Thank you so much for joining me and for answering all my questions. I know that you guys are doing something phenomenal, as I said, for this space, and I'm really excited to keep watching the entire Lucky Saint journey because, also, I've met several of you now from the team and you're all really lovely people and I think that makes a big difference. So, congratulations to everything you've done. Well done to you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I'll pass that on to the team. Yeah, it's a lovely place to be part of. Thank you, I will pass that on to the team. Yeah, it's a lovely place to be part of, and definitely can't take credit for a lot of the stuff that you've talked about, but they're all there doing that stuff every day and it's yeah, it is fab, wonderful. Thank you so much. Thanks, Denise.
